Talk:Quest Guide Template

Quest Summary & Section Standards

 * Test Quest Page - For use in creating the quest template. All work from An Adventurer's Sandbox is located here now.

Multi-Level/Version Quest Guide
I think we need to come up with standardized template to handle "Multi-level" and "multi-version" quests. There are several that I know of, like Zaikhal Defender, The Blackmire Series, Harbinger Quest, and Gaerlan's Citadel. The format we use for a quest writeup, especially with the new Quest Links format doesn't really work if we combine the write-ups, plus it gets very long and confusing when part of the quest is shared and other parts are unique (like Harbinger). I think its still a good idea to keep them on one page, but perhaps some way to standardize them would be good? Its actually relatively easy for quests like Zaikhal Defender and Gaerlan's Citadel, as you'll see I simply put the level requirement in the title, like Walkthrough (80+). But, for quests like Harbinger Quest, where there really is no level requirement, and you could choose to do either version at any time, what should we do to organize this? I tried to clean it up a little bit, but right now I think that write-up is pretty messy. --Atarax 11:11, 15 January 2009 (CST)


 * I had more typed up, but I think it should all come down to this: If the different versions of quests share timers, they should be listed as a single quest. If their timers are unique, then give them each a page. My guess is that very few quests with multiple versions share timers. --An Adventurer 11:51, 15 January 2009 (CST)


 * That makes sense. So the next question is, how to we better organize those pages to succinctly display the two guides without repeating ourselves for the data that is shared between both versions? Maybe we create one Walk Through heading, then describe each section in order:
 * * Part 1: Harbinger Tunnels (All Versions)
 * * Part 2A: Harbinger's Lair (Hard Version Only)
 * * Part 2B: Essence Chambers (Easy Version Only)
 * Does that look like it would work? --Atarax 12:00, 15 January 2009 (CST)

Remove Detailed Walk Through Section?
I think we should also remove the Detailed Walk Through portion of the quest template. Nobody uses it, and when they do, its just repeated text from the Walk Through with a bunch of Dialog mixed in, which makes it a little hard to read. Anyone object? --Atarax 13:38, 13 January 2009 (CST)
 * There are a few quests that use it, I believe the reasoning was that anything that doesn't apply we just delete, and a template will generally contain the range of options. But I didn't add it, so they can probably give the reasoning better than I can. --Tlosk 14:52, 13 January 2009 (CST)
 * The reason for having it was to provide an area to have long detailed guides, like the step-by-step guide for navigating the dungeon in Aerbax's Prodigal Mosswart, or when I redo it, the riddles and such from Aerbax's Prodigal Lugian. The walkthrough section was meant for shorter guides - something that for the most part could be cut and pasted into parchments/books - where details are not listed, just the short objectives like go to 12.3s, 45.6w, enter dungeon, kill boss at end, loot item. --An Adventurer 15:05, 13 January 2009 (CST)
 * I see what you mean about the puzzles and riddles, etc... My only complaint is that it gets pretty long and difficult to read at some point, because usually you want the detailed how-to or resource information, even in the basic write-up.
 * I think we should try to limit navigating the dungeon to basic steps, and then if they need clarification, simply refer them to the map. In general, trying to navigate written instructions for a complicated dungeon is pretty difficult to start with.
 * Perhaps instead of a detailed walk through, we could have a Resources section on an article specifically for diagrams or resource tables like puzzles or riddles. This could come into play with the Harbinger Items resource table, as well as the Gaerlan's_Citadel resource table.  That way in the Walk Through, instead of listing everything right there, we can just link to the HTML Anchor for that resource.  This way the Walk Through stays concise but all the data is there for reference only.  This would also be a good for people who want to try to figure out the puzzle themselves, and not have it right in their face while they read the Walk Through.  Just a couple ideas, but what do you think? --Atarax 11:34, 15 January 2009 (CST)

Maps Section and Custom Table of Contents
I think we should remove the 'Map' section from the quest summary and always place them below under the Maps section, like Mukkir Aspect of Grael. Also, I think we should make the Images section standardized (include it in the template), using the template from Aerbax's Citadel. Thoughts? --Atarax 12:42, 2 January 2009 (CST)
 * Adding Images section to the template would be a good idea. Personally I like having the maps in the summary, partly because most maps are on acmaps so we can't include them in the body but primarily because when I go back to a writeup that's often the link I'm looking for right away and it's nice to have a standard place to look for the link. If most maps were hosted here I'd agree with having a maps section (we've approached Greeneye about the possibility and for a couple of reasons he only wants us to use links). I'd be fine with adding a Maps section the template though, so we can use it for new quests we are hosting the maps (if I stop slacking and turn around the stack of drafts I've got hehe.--Tlosk 13:01, 2 January 2009 (CST)
 * Even if the map is hosted at ACMaps, I still think it might be a good idea to list it under a Maps header. Sometimes the name of the Map is very long, and it causes the quest summary block to look pretty bad when it wraps around so much.  Also, seeing as how you created most of the maps, what's the harm of hosting them on the wiki as well as ACMaps?  The reason I ask is that the ACMaps website has been extremely slow in the past couple months, and sometimes non-responsive.  I'd hate to see it break or something and we lose all the maps! ;) --Atarax 13:50, 2 January 2009 (CST)
 * That sounds good, I hadn't really thought it all the way though, now that there will always be a Maps section, I can just zoom to that part. It's fine with me if we take it out of the summary block. Or maybe even how about adding a hotlinks bar to the summary that goes to the main sections? Since it's a fixed width block and we normally go NOToC on quest pages. Since these things can look different in isolation, I've temporarily modded Mukkir Aspect of Grael to show you what I mean. Since they are all links to standard sections, it would just be boilerplate that would get added to the base template and wouldn't need to be changed for different pages. History Link if read later.


 * As far as the ACMaps, I would love to host maps here. But Greeneye holds the copyright (even on maps I made myself) so unless he changes his mind we have no recourse. Back when this happened An Adventurer and I started working on a new map format just for the wiki (Greeneye didn't want us to use the ACMaps format either), but it has kind of stalled (I was working on a new mapping utility but haven't worked on it for a few months). Also there's a potential collaboration in the works for providing customized spawn maps, and depending on how that turns out it may provide some new directions for our dungeon maps as well. But as long as the maps are available at ACMaps it's kind of considered a low priority since we won't be providing new content, just more convenient content and it will be time consuming. At any rate you don't have to worry about losing anything, I've already made arrangements to avoid any losses whatever might happen.--Tlosk 14:27, 2 January 2009 (CST)


 * I just checked out the Mukkir Aspect of Grael, and I really like what you did there a lot. I think that should be the standard template for all quests.  Another reason why I think this is a good idea is for quests that have a lot of maps.  For example, I just finished the Brewmaster Quest write-up, and it has at least 3 maps.  Having them in their own section would be a lot cleaner then cramming them into the summary block, even if they're just links to ACMaps.  Good work! --Atarax 10:52, 3 January 2009 (CST)


 * I understand that, especially with multiple maps, the summary looks bad. But it might be an idea to bring the paragraph of Maps up higher? Some walkthroughs can become rather long, and as a user (not writer ;) )of the quest guides, I like to immediately do "right click-new tab" for the map, and then read the walkthrough. Then about images and such, is it possible to get a sub-template for adding images in the general template? like.. table like? Thx! Sanddh 2:07, 12 January 2009 (CET)
 * Thats why we added the quick links to the top of the quest template. They are anchors that jump to each of the specific sections, like so:
 * It might be a better/different idea to incorporate the actual Table of Contents into the page somehow. Maybe Tlosk can come up with something like he did for the creature template, like the  template.  Maybe we could do something like that for the quests as well instead of the  snippit? --Atarax 19:09, 12 January 2009 (CST)
 * I'm working on a couple options, and will post again when I'm done. --Tlosk 14:53, 13 January 2009 (CST)
 * I'm working on a couple options, and will post again when I'm done. --Tlosk 14:53, 13 January 2009 (CST)

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